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Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...

Posted by tuk22 
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 24, 2014 09:34PM
tuk: If you're carrying a fetus that you know has a severe developmental condition like Down's Syndrome, do you think that you should be able to abort it?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 24, 2014 09:50PM
If I remember correctly, most Down Syndrome children get that way because the mother is drinking alcohol while pregnant. So perhaps the mother is the one who should be aborted.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 24, 2014 09:54PM
You're thinking of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. The probability of a baby born with DS increases significantly in women over 40.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 24, 2014 10:02PM
Indy! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I remember correctly, most Down Syndrome
> children get that way because the mother is
> drinking alcohol while pregnant. So perhaps the
> mother is the one who should be aborted.

What!!! Down Syndrome is a genetic disorder!

Maddie
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 24, 2014 10:09PM
Horns,

I'm pro choice... It's the parents decision...
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 24, 2014 11:24PM
My mistake. Good thing Indy is a graphic designer and not a doctor. smoking smiley
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 05:29AM
Admit it Indy... You assumed I was pro life, didn't you? You also assumed I'm religious... I'm not, I just defend what I believe to be good and charitable...

And I know a lot about DS...

Many public resources go to people with disabilities. In the case of people with downs their life expectancy is now around 60 due to medical advancements. The severity of their condition determines the amount of financial assistance required... It's not an easy decision for parents at all...

Downs kids need immediate care... The first years of their lives require physical speech and language therapy. Without this treatment and education most would not be able to care for themselves during adulthood...

Abortion is not preventative medicine. It can be a medically necessary procedure but for what we are discussing it's called elective surgery. I don't mind insurers covering it, making it elective, but to mandate it it's nonsense and reeks of special interest dickering... Abortion was always covered for medically necessary reasons... It's not a procedure to prevent birth defects. A true preventative measure would be something like treatment to stop crack whores from smoking while pregnant.

Dawkins.doesn't believe in choice here, and regardless of the health related risks, we know many people with DS live healthy, rewarding, and socially valuable lives!

That's not in question!

So yeah, I believe the moral outrage is absolutely justified and do not think his belief is morally defensible...

And I would like some consistency with the new atheists... Nobody should be defending Dawkins here...
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 06:41AM
How do you know that Dawkins doesn't believe in choice regarding aborting a fetus with DS? As I tried to illustrate with my example, it's possible to believe that something is immoral and to also believe in choice.

Saying that knowingly giving birth to a baby with Down's Syndrome is immoral is not the same thing as suggesting that there should be a law requiring mandatory abortion for fetuses with Down's Syndrome.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2014 06:42AM by Hornswoggle.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:15AM
Choice as in pro-choice... He doesn't believe a women should choose life. She has a moral obligation to abort the fetus, and it's clearly not a defensible moral belief knowing some DS individuals are happy and productive members of society... We have pro life and pro choice, both understandable and defensible IMO... Dawkins is arguing pro-death...
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:21AM
Dawkins is no more "pro death" than my old Christian friend would said she would abort her fetus if it had a severe developmental abnormality.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:25AM
Does your Christian friend believe all people should choose to abort the fetus?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:28AM
I didn't ask her.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:30AM
Where did Hawkins say that all people should choose to abort the fetus?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:34AM
eye rolling smiley no sheit, but you know she can't justify a moral position that promotes just that... You can't make a rational quality of life argument justifying a moral obligation to abort all DS fetuses... I'm having this same discussion on another board where someone with a DS cousin claims his cousin loves life and is a blessing to his entire family...
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:38AM
...Where did Hawkins say that all people should choose to abort the fetus?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:44AM
Quote:
Richard Dawkins ✔ @RichardDawkins
Follow
@InYourFaceNYer Abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 07:59AM
How do you know Dawkins doesn't mean it would be immoral because the woman admits she doesn't know what she would do? Obviously she doesn't want to deal with the consequences. She should then bring the child into the world... why, exactly? Because you have a problem with abortion? It would be immoral for any mother to have a child she doesn't want - DS or not.

And your entire "abortion is not..." argument above is based on YOUR beliefs. You can't seem to get past that part.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 08:11AM
My 'abortion is not' argument is based on current medical coding classifications... If the mother is healthy abortion is an elective procedure...

And how do I know? Context...
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 10:33AM
Tuk is pro-choice -- just as long as no woman actually chooses to have an abortion.

The basic problem here is that tuk, like so many other of the rabid religious, believes that personhood, not just life, begins at that nebulous point called conception.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
August 25, 2014 04:20PM
No... I believe it's ridiculous to claim any women is immoral for choosing to bring a DS baby into the world...

I guess Dick must share Dawkins view... thumbs down



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2014 04:53PM by tuk22.
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