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Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.

Posted by Anonymous User 
What's all this now? I thought Federal-Spending-Bad, Tax-Cuts-Good were foregone conclusions beyond obvious to any rational, unbiased, non-ignoramus.

In his July 24, 2008 testimony (pdf) before the House Committee on Small Business, Mark Zandi, chief economist and co-founder of Moody's Economy.com, presented this chart:

Fiscal Economic Bank for the Buck
One year $ change in real GDP for a given $ reduction in federal tax revenue or increase in spending

Tax Cuts
Non-refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.02
Refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.26

Temporary Tax Cuts
Payroll Tax Holiday 1.29
Across the Board Tax Cut 1.03
Accelerated Depreciation 0.27

Permanent Tax Cuts
Extend Alternative Minimum Tax Patch 0.48
Make Bush Income Tax Cuts Permanent 0.29
Make Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts Permanent 0.37
Cut in Corporate Tax Rate 0.30

Spending Increases
Extending UI Benefits 1.64
Temporary Increase in Food Stamps 1.73
General Aid to State Governments 1.36
Increased Infrastructure Spending 1.59
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/bord_du_rasoir/cnn-20090127lg.jpg

"Mark Zandi is chief economist and cofounder of Moody’s Economy.com, where he directs the company’s research and consulting activities. Moody’s Economy.com, a division of Moody’s Analytics, provides economic research and consulting services to businesses, governments and other institutions."
http://www.economy.com/dismal/bios.asp?author=25
Here is the source report where the figures come from:
Assessing the Macro Economic Impact of Fiscal Stimulus 2008 by Mark Zandi
Unemployment compensation, food stamps and other government assistance programs are designed in part ot cushion an economic downturn by injecting more money than usually disbursed by these programs into the economy.

____________________________________________
What kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a year?
I heard aboutv this report yesrterday but couldn't find it, even with a Google search. I'm grateful that you did find it and posted it here.

This absolutely destroys the Republican mantra about 'tax cuts' being the most effective way to stimulate a sick economy. This is not big news for Democrats, but it does give them ammunition when they come up against a barrage of Republican bullshit about how 'tax cuts' are the answer to . . . well - anything.

This shows that tax cuts diminish overall revenues and do very little to address rising unemployment numbers and that they are statistically the WORST idea. (Reaganomics 'Laffer Curve' advocates to the contrary notwithstanding) to stimulate the economy.

Incidentally, you might want to edit your opening thread and change the word 'bank' to 'bang' as I'm sure you intended it to be.
Why because Trickley down does not work. It ignores the greediness of people. Rich people love money and they do not let it trickle down to the little people. While taxes can encourage or discourage behavior they will not change the underlying greed factor not accounted for in trickled down theories of the republicans.
In fact, rich people mix paper money in with lettuce for a refeshing change-of-pace salad course.

____________________________________________
What kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a year?
The 1950s (or at least the Eisenhower years) are generally thought of as a time of peace and prosperity.

Was it because of the really low taxes? No. In fact, during the 1950s the top tax bracket was 91%. Compare that to the 35% in the years leading up to our current economic crisis. [www.truthandpolitics.org]

No, it had something to do with the billions of dollars we spent building the Interstate Highway System.
Which had to be paid for by high taxes duh.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

President Eisenhower
Hey Obamanuts,
If $1 in food stamps generates $1.73 in stimulus, lets put everyone on food stamps. What a great return on this investment!
Morons without common sense is all that can be said.
Of course most of you grasshoppers suck on the goverment teet and could care less about the ants that fill up the teet.
Soon all the ants will be transformed into grasshoppers and we can all starve.
Dude:

If ants are filling up your teat, I suggest you see a doctor.
"If $1 in food stamps generates $1.73 in stimulus, lets put everyone on food stamps."

That there argument's full of straw, man. The title is tongue-in-cheek. No one's arguing that.

The recovery plan puts $102 billion (12%) toward unemployment benefits and food stamps. I have not heard Obama or the Democrats propose any more than that. If you know better, please relay the news. Comparatively, $265 billion (33%) of the plan goes toward tax credits and $195 billion (24%) goes toward infrastructure.

Given that our infrastructure is poor and current funds are insufficient and infrastructure has a greater return on investment than tax cuts, I am in favor of the following:

1. Leave Unemployment & Food Stamps as is at $102B
2. Double infrastructure spending from $195 to $400B (+$205 billion)
3. Cut the tax credits down from $265 to $190B (-$75 billion)
4. Cut out $50 billion of the spending that is least stimulative, e.g. student grants, "pork" projects (-$50 billion)

The result is a $900 billion bill with double the infrastructure spending and less "pork."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2009 06:05PM by bord.
Isn't Moody's also the same institution that said all of those CDOs, CMOs, CMBSs, etc., were AAA? So, why would we think that their analysis is/isn't flawed??? They couldn't get it right on cash flow instruments and whiff often on general corporate credits. I find it conspicuous that most of the +1 results were from liberal programs. I find it odd that the reduction in corporate tax rates (permanent) is only 0.30??? All the gains, even IF a company didn't buy an incremental dollar, would accrue to stockholders and likely flow through the IRS as capital gains...Maybe he'll get a Cabinet post for his "research?"
Here's why food stamps stimulate the economy, btw -

In a consumer economy like ours unfortunately is, money spent on food is money wasted, especially if the people buying the food can't buy anything else with their money. If they have food stamps, that money that they've spent on food can be spent on extras, like umm... a giant LCD screen television. Honestly, I see lots of people on food stamps with giant televisions. And the reason they can afford these giant TVs is because they get government help for food and housing.
Bord writes,

Quote
I thought Federal-Spending-Bad, Tax-Cuts-Good were foregone conclusions beyond obvious to any rational, unbiased, non-ignoramus.

Those policies, in effect for the last decade, are exactly why so many people need food stamps and unemployment now.
The problem is that people have a bias against food stamps, because many (most?) Americans think that people on food stamps are lazy, good for nothings that are unnecessarily on the public dole. Thus, they chafe at the notion that food stamps are a good stimulus, even though economists' analysis (which look at the numbers and not the moral values of particular spending decisions) indicates that they are the best stimulus. The reason food stamps are good stimulus is clear: the money MUST be spent in a specific way...on food...which has a value chain that employs many people, and therefore that $ spent on food translates to more dollars all the way down the value chain, which are in turn spent on goods and services. Use of food stamps also frees up the recipients other income for other, more discretionary, uses. Those goods and services also have a value chain. This is a very basic economic conept called "a multiplier", which you learn in Macroeconomics 101, a coourse which, unfortunately, most of the idiots whoa re ranting about this stimulus package have not taken. So...for the individual who suggested (albeit sarcastically) that EVERYONE should get food stamps...that's actually a great idea. Rather than giving people tax cuts, which they can squirrel away in a bank or use to pay down debt, why not give everyone a debit card with a certain amount of value that they can only use on specified items. Or even just food. That would insure that ALL the money would be spent and therefore demand would be stimulated by each and every dollar in the package. That would have been my approach to all of this..a debit card for everyone (employed or unemployed, rich or poor) to provide immediate stimulus, plus infrastructure spending to fix our aging infrastructure to keep the stimulus momentum going for the next few years.

Oh and PS, to the same individual who accused people who are on unemployment of "sucking the government's teat", unemployment insurance is funded by employers, not by the government (with the exception of extra funding being put into teh system by the feds as stimulus or to shore up the states' unemployments funds...many of which are broke from the unusually high demand.) ANd PPS...anyone who thinks it's a happy little joy ride to be on unemployment is quite welcome to have my unemployment check in return for their job. UNemployment doesn't pay even 20% of my non-discretionary monthly bills, which got considerably higher when I had to start paying for my own health insurance. I have a 20 year work history and went to school at night for ten of those years (have a BS, MS,and MBA) so I could have a stable, good paying job. I now spend 10 hours/day trying to find a new job in a market where ever major employer is either on a hiring freeze or laying people off and I've seriously considered lying on my resuem to make me look less qualified so I could get hired for a job that pays $30K/year less than what I had before. If you'd like to place a bet that I'm more lazy than you, I'd welcome that bet...any day...any time.
Your debit card idea sounds terrific.

I've seriously considered lying on my resuem to make me look less qualified - Lean

That might help. Btw, I'm in the same boat. I'm an ex-computer programmer (old school) and haven't had a decent paying job since '02. It's tough out there.
I think Starboard's suggestion of debit cards that specify what can and what can't be purchased with them is brilliant.

The only thing I would add is an 'expiration date' to assure that the money would be sppent immediately.

Why not? Think about it. The very industries that need help could be targeted. The recipients of the cards couldn't 'rat-hole' them or use them to pay off old bills (unless those bills happened to coincide with the commodities specified). It would be an absolute and immediate shot-in-the-arm boost to the economy.

Can anybody see any holes in this?
Max out yer cards and then forget about 'em.

Fuk the banks.

If they get the billions and you don't see a dime then why should you care?

If we all screw the banks and then don't pay our taxes....

Well the whole dame system come crashing down.

Dont it?

We can fuk the tar baby before it fuks us.
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 03:54PM
There may be some degree of black marketing on such cards. People selling them for cash at a much reduced amount than they are worth. And maybe some hacking. But apart from that, it does sound like a really good idea.

Cas, do you really think it's a good idea to burn down a barn while you are trapped inside it?

.
This is what you DEMOIDIOTS wanted, isn't it?

A corrupt cabal of democRATS running the show. Not saying republicans are great and all, but dam#, they aren't even 1/100 as bad as these idiot democRATS are today.

Pelosi, your grand leader, idiots queen of idiots, 100% democrat idealogy at work right here folks....

[www.sodahead.com]

I guess the democRAT strategy is to lay off as many people as possible according to idiots like this.

You morons expect republicans to say George Bush was wrong about many things and they do, ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING THAT YOU IDIOTS ARE WILLING TO FOLLOW THE DEMOCRATS OFF THE EDGE OF A CLIFF RATHER THAN ADMIT HOW WRONG THEY ARE.

Doesn't matter what the label is, democrat or republican, the current morons ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING decmorats the White House now are the worst of the worst, the smelliest most foul POS to ever walk the earth. They voted almost 100% to give ILLEGALS more rights than the average American citizen. They are basically saying all legal American citizens are complete tools and should lie down and allow foreign criminals to rape, murder, and destroy all Americans and their families. That's your ghetto dwelling garbage that you voted for. Enjoy.

oh, and they want to raise taxes and bail out more corporations. ENJOY THAT ONE TOO!! smiling smiley
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 04:26PM
"This is what you DEMOIDIOTS wanted, isn't it?

A corrupt cabal of democRATS running the show."
-Obie

*sigh*

Oh my yes. That is precisely what we have always dreamt of. You have discovered our Master Plan. You are so brilliant in your wise disection of our motives.

"I guess the democRAT strategy is to lay off as many people as possible according to idiots like this." -Obie

Gosh gee-willikers our convoluted and cryptic plans are but transparent putty in your masterful and boundlessly astute hands. We can never pull anything over on you, Obie. Curses! We had never planned on coming up against such a deft and formidable foe.

"Blah blah blah [gushing, blithering idiocy] blah blah blah blah blah [shameless, rampant stupidity] blah blah blah [ludicrous, propagandistic nonsense] blah blah blah blah." -Obie

Some day you are going to realize that you are only hurting any argument you might have had to make with all this hyperbolic and asinine ridiculousness. Having appeared to everyone as such a complete buffoon, no one will ever take you seriously.

.
Obiewankadopie knows all.

____________________________________________
What kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a year?
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” BUT BUT BUT DIDN'T YOU SAY SADDAM NEVER POSED A THREAT??

smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley "America will be far safer if we reduce the chances of a terrorist attack in one of our cities than if we diminish the civil liberties of our own people." smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley GOTTA LOVE THIS ONE!!!

"But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy." - OF COURSE!!! MAKES PERFECT SENSE!!! PASS FIRST, THEN READ!!! How dare you serfs question your Queen?

"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance." - ENDORSING LAZINESS AND WELFARE AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE. NICE!!! smiling smiley

MORE ECONOMIC STIMULUS, JUST NOT FOR YOU GRINGO AMERICANS :

Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998) smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley

Because Queen Nancy of the democrats cares about you!!! THE AMERICAN!!!

Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 04:52PM
HHH, they say it's not safe to wake a sleepwalker. Maybe we should just let him stagger along...

.
Ponderer, YOU ARE THE EXACT REASON WHY FEMALES SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO VOTE.

PRETTY IDIOTS


+PLUS INEXPERIENCED BAFOON.


EQUALS =

Future SOCIALIST AMERICA


ILLEGAL IMPORTATION OF 3RD WORLD DESTITUTION WITHOUT AMERICAN'S CONSENT.


SOONER OR LATER, IRAN OR SOME ROGUE COUNTRY WILL DO THIS TO ANOTHER COUNTRY WITHOUT ANY FEAR, AT LEAST NOT FROM AN AMERICAN PANSY PRESIDENT WHO BOWS DOWN TO EVERYONE.


Ponderer, you are so empty headed that logic, if it ever entered your head, could wander for decades without reaching your skullcap.
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 05:14PM
You need to start your own church, obie. With your brilliant wisdom and evenhanded, flawless take on all that is going on in the world, we could all truly benefit from your divinely guided counsil. You are wasted here on us, a mere handful of souls. You must share your prophetic gifts with the world...!

.
Once again, when defeated, you offer nothing in rebuttal.

Typcial female democrat voter. Sadly, you are a typical female in general. Easily led to your own slaughter. I bet the Nazis would have told you to take a shower cause starvation made you stink and you would walk in and only ask where the soap is at.

So stupid that the very definition of stupid does not hold enough weight to define your utter lack of knowledge.

Ponderer, you want to have a serious discussion rather than having your butt licked by your own kind, then at least try posting the truth instead of lies.

Obama is a complete and utter failure. End of discussion. I don't care what party you affiliate yourself with.

Stop drinking the koolaide and back away from the socialist cliff.
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 06:38PM
"Ponderer, you want to have a serious discussion rather than [blah blah blah blah]" -obie

You even using the word serious is ludicrous in the extreme. You come waltzing in here with a pile of lame-ass, second-grade, hyperbolic blather that even Limbaugh would dismiss as too stupid to use, and you expect anyone to be serious with you?

I had been hoping that this was all some sort of put-on, that you couldn't really be this pig-ignorant, but you keep dashing any possibility that that could be the case. You have no idea what you are blathering about. You accuse people of things they never have been. You attribute beliefs to people who never had them. You swallow any asinine rumor and propaganda talking point the right throws out with your own brand of idiocy sprinkled on top for good measure and then scream it out here like you're Moses with the Ten Commandments. And then you jump on someone else for not being serious??? Gimme a freaking break, obie.

You are way out of your league in this forum and you know it. That's why you have to fall back on tired, pathetic old nonsense typed in all caps. NONSENSE in capital letters is still nonsense. You just look stupider spewing it. You are nothing but hot air. A loud fart in the political discourse of this forum.

Try ditching the stupid act if you want to have serious discourse in here. You'll find you are given back what you gave in the first place. Actually, you have found that out already if you open your blinkered eyes and look at how you are treated in here. It's why the forum dismisses you as a moron. Because you act like one. Get a freaking clue, dude.

.
"Troglodyte."

Another idiot response by someone even dumber than Ponderer. Didn't think that was even possible.

We are in sad shape as a country indeed. Every time a retard votes, a democrat is one vote closer to winning.
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 06:51PM
Cas... whatcha bet he had to look it up...?

.
I ain't takin' that bet Pondy.
He probably had his mom look it up for him.
Tell you what Ponderer.....


You keep mumbling your democrat/liberal babblespeak like you were a few months ago and stop pretending like you always knew Obama was an idiot then we talk serious conversation. A couple months ago, Obama's anus and your lips were superglued together.

The reason I post the insanity is because YOU ALL ARE INSANE. Certifiable.


The country is looming at 10%-50% unemployment state by state and you pseudo intellectuals still can't figure out that socialism and multiculturalism are dangerous failures. States are failing to pay to most basic of services. The government is talking massive bailouts and inflation beyond belief. Get ready for your socialism. America will become something you thought it would become. Your degenerate poverty stricken 3rd world utopia. Thanks to corrupt politicians that led easily sheep like you to the voting booth.

You know nothing of what America's founding fathers had in mind nor what it is to be American. You are too busy being "progressive" morons.

Well, keep "progressing" towards socialism and enjoy "progressing" to your economic and social death.

Enjoy Jan 1st 2011, when the democrats raise your income tax from 35% to 39% after promising not do raise taxes one bit.


The point, besides the ones on your heads, is that you are all insane posting pseudo-babble instead of actually posting the truth of how you are getting massively taxed to support every illegal activity under the sun(corporate welfare, illegal aliens) and instead of posting the truth, you sugar coat the truth.

You and idiots like you have been doing this until you see the actual economic impact on yourselves. But then again, that is typical liberal mantra. Do as I do not as I say. If it doesn't affect me, why should I care.

Nothing will change until you idiots recognize that illegal alien invasion, government takeovers of private business, excessive taxes, out of control social programs, and a host of other bad democrat ideas will have destructive long term effects on everyone, INCLUDING YOU!!!

You and others with your liberal, deranged, and sycophantic version of utopia will destroy this country and ruin many lives.

This isn't about being democrat or republican, this is about being completely and utterly insane which many of you are.

You are witnessing the collapse of socialistic states and still think socialism can work.

You see the grim and horrifying statistics of Americans getting murdered by illegals and you want to integrate them into our society.

You want to tax everyone to death and expect new jobs to be created.

You voted in an insane MUSLIM HOMOSEXUAL as president and don't even recognize it when he recently stated that he wants Islamic countries to be involved in NASA as if Americans have something to gain by that.

You are systematically getting taxed to death and not so much as a whimper of complaint.

Insane? Me?

Jesus H. Almight Christ on a stick....You are all lunatics for not only allowing, but worse, condoning this and making excuses. It's like you want your children to be born in a world where 90% of their earnings are taxed and they are forced to purchase whatever the government tells them to purchase.

All of this is happening right before your eyes under a rogue government headed by a 3rd world illegal baboon and you don't so much say a thing because you wouldn't want to upset anyone's liberal sensibilities.

For any of you that voted in this Kenyan Clown, turn to your children and apologize to them for the kind of socialist policies they will have to live with along with the unemployment as well as being forced to slave labor when they do get a job to support lazy 3rd world invaders who collect welfare at their expense.

That's your "progressive" liberal utopia in a nutshell. Enjoy it and tell your kids good freakin luck. I bet the suicide rate is gonna sky rocket for kids out of college when they see what great NON-OPPORTUNITIES socialism and democrats brought them.

If liberals and progressives are so great, then why don't they ever live in the messes they created? (DETROIT, COMPTON, any ghetto usually is ruled by democrats) Why do they live in gated communities?

BUT THE BEST REASON DEMOCRATS ARE INSANE IS THEIR HOUSE SPEAKER, MADAMME PELOSI :

"America will be far safer if we reduce the chances of a terrorist attack in one of our cities than if we diminish the civil liberties of our own people." - Nancy Pelosi.

Noted and straight from the cow's own mouth. Your civil liberties should be diminished. NICE!!!

Yes, the old safety for freedom. Isn't that what liberals were accusing George Bush of doing? Trading safety for freedom.

Funny how George Bush was evil incarnate and here you have Pelosi saying the very thing George Bush was accused of and not a peep.

I don't care what party you belong to, you literally have to be deranged to agree that your freedoms should be curtailed (for your safety of course) by any government whether democrat or republican.

This is not the America that was created by great men. This is an America torn down by 3rd world baboons, criminals, degenerates, homosexual deviants, and other slimy subhumanoids.

Why homos? Well, let's see, how many of you think that your 5 year old needs to learn about gay sex? Apparently many homo organizations think otherwise. Keep your crap in the closet and keep schools as a place of education not masterbation. In between the NEA and slimy special interest organizations, our college graduates are lucky if they can graduate with full reading compreshension. But hey, they know how to shove pickles in each other. That's gotta count for something, right?

I mean, without those 1/2 retarded perpetually high, uneducated, easily led morons, we wouldn't have the great president we have today with his amazing experience at neighborhood organizing and running his own campaign.
has reducing federal taxes ever NOT resulted in stimulating the economy?
Enjoy Jan 1st 2011, when the democrats raise your income tax from 35% to 39% after promising not do raise taxes one bit. - O

39% is less than half the rate we had when America's middle class was the envy of the world.

Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 07:40PM
Obie,

I want to thank you at least for trying to act like a reasonable human being. It was a valiant effort, but you are still failing miserably. You just have to throw in those spasms of retardation even when you are trying not to. It's like you have Tourettes syndrome or something. I do appreciate and acknowledge the effort, but you have a whole lot of work ahead of you to come off as anything even approaching reasonable and rational in here, obie. Don't stop trying though just because of this initial failure. You can do it if you just keep trying. You do have some tiny shreds of actual good points mashed up all in there somewhere. Try to focus more on them than on the coating of stupid you seem so addicted to slathering all over them.

.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2010 07:48PM by Ponderer.
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 07:50PM
You give up way too easily, Obie.

.
"You give up way too easily, Obie."

Arguing with you is a pointless venture. You are too retarded to even acknowledge what was around you the first time the illegal Kenyan ran for president. What makes you think I care about educating a retard llike you who has chosen to remain a retard?

The economy speaks for itself. Your children's future, if you even have any kids, will be miserable because of idiots like you that leaned towards socialism instead of individualism and freedom.

You imaginary victory is exactly like you......



You understand nothing therefore you won nothing. In order for you to even contemplate your so-called victory, you have to be competent enough to understand what you were arguing against in the first place.

You are so retarded that you probably don't even understand 99% of what is written by people of opposing views to yours.

Enjoy your victory retard while your children deal with the consequences.
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