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This isn't complicated. 2020 is a referendum on Trump.

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COVID-19: US vs South Korea

Posted by Donna 
COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 03:04AM
Both countries reported their first COVID-19 case on the same day.

South Korea
Cases: 11,018
Deaths: 260
Population 51,640,000

US
Cases: 1,470,000
Deaths: 88,144
Population: 328,000,000

Per capita COVID-19 comparisons
US has 21 times the number of cases per capita than SK; 53 times the number of deaths per capita than SK.

Why the difference?
The South Korean government took command of the situation and acted proactively in accordance with advice from medical experts. The US government did not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2020 07:09PM by Donna.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 04:44AM
Just a pony. The per capita should be reversed.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 06:12AM
I feel bad for these people being forced back into their jobs or losing them with no unemployment. I was at the store today and there was a noticeable difference in the way people were operating. They were still trying to be conscientious (I feel lucky - my area is nothing like what you see on tv) - but more people were shopping which meant less room for social distancing. The store had almost everything too - except paper towels and sanitizer.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 05:03PM
"Why the difference?
The South Korean government took command of the situation and acted proactively in accordance with advice from medical experts. The US government did not."

There are also several social and cultural issues that "Ugly Americans" don't care to understand.

1. Masks have been a routine in the area for at least a couple of generations.

2.They have the stockpile of said masks because every mom and pop store in every one dog village has them.

3. These people aren't victims like the western countries. They don't sit around whining like little biatches and demand the government do sht for them. They take it upon themselves to be active players in their own lives.

4. Like the Chinese, the Korean culture was built on "Monarchies" that were really (many times brutal) dictatorships. When the government says "do that," or "do this," the people just jump to do it. When the sirens start, everyone between the ages of 18 and 65 know where their place is for the national emergency. The Yakimando vender cuts the gas to the fryer and puts on his Civil Defense helmet and takes charge of what he is supposed to. If you disobey him, you get arrested (and usually beaten going to jail).

5. Traditionally, the Koreans don't acknowledge or name their babies for 100 days after birth because of the infant mortality. At the 100 day mark, they actually have the "birthday" party.

6. I honestly challenge anyone on this site to hike with a 75 year old Korean woman. You'll get left in the dust. The parks in country not only have many miles of mountainous trails, they also have "exercise" stations to take advantage of. Even in the Seoul metro area, the Koreans have walking paths made of remanufactured tires to make a softer walking surface.

7. Violent crime in the ROK is about half of ours. The reason for this (among what has already been mentioned), is the prison system in the Republic is brutal, even in Asian standards. Cells hold 25-50, beatings (by both guards and prisoners) are routine, as are rapes. Food is given enmasse, and only those that can beat others can get any food.

Just another point. During Viet Nam, the ROK sent their Special Forces. They wanted to be given an area and left alone. It was well known that you sent them to the most Viet Cong infested areas. After a month or so, there were no more problems. That said, as you went in to the villages, there were piked heads as a warning. That's the mindset of the country.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 07:13PM
Oops. Thanks meagain. Corrected.

Here's Germany. Not as dramatic, but horrible nonetheless.

Per capita COVID-19 comparisons
US has 2.1 times the number of cases per capita than Germany; 2.53 times the number of deaths per capita.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 07:21PM
Korea's success. od, is simpler than that. It isolated early. It massively tested and traced contacts from the start. It was prepared for a pandemic as Western countries should have been. There were warnings years earlier that the need would arise SARS gave all the reasons that we should have been ready, too.

Neooliberalism is what gave the virus an easy oathway.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 07:51PM
Btw, contrary to what OldeDude claims, mask use and availability in S. Korea wasn't nearly as high as he implies before the pandemic, although they did learn from experience with SARS and MERS.

Quote

According to a survey conducted in South Korea, around 70 percent of respondents stated that they started to wear face masks after coronavirus outbreak. About 19 percent were already wearing masks even before the outbreak and another 11 percent said they do not wear masks regardless of coronavirus. The most popular type of face masks among South Koreans was KF94 health masks. [www.statista.com]

Quote

By the end of February, South Korea had the most COVID-19 patients of any country outside China. New confirmed cases were doubling every few days, and pharmacies were running out of face masks. More than a dozen countries imposed travel restrictions to protect their citizens from the Korean outbreak, including the U.S., which had, at the time, recorded an official COVID-19 death toll low enough to count on one hand.

But just as South Korea appeared to be descending into catastrophe, the country stopped the virus in its tracks. The government demanded that the Shincheonji Church turn over its full membership list, through which the Ministry of Health identified thousands of worshippers. All were ordered to self-isolate. Within days, thousands of people in Daegu were tested for the virus. Individuals with the most serious cases were sent to hospitals, while those with milder cases checked into isolation units at converted corporate training facilities. The government used a combination of interviews and cellphone surveillance to track down the recent contacts of new patients and ordered those contacts to self-isolate as well.

Within a month, the Korean outbreak was effectively contained. In the first two weeks of March, new daily cases fell from 800 to fewer than 100. (This morning, the nation of 51 million reported zero new domestic infections for the third straight day.) On April 15, the country successfully held a national parliamentary election with the highest turnout in three decades, without triggering another wave. South Korea is not unique in its ability to bend the curve of daily cases; New Zealand, Australia, and Norway have done so, as well. But it is perhaps the largest democracy to reduce new daily cases by more than 90 percent from peak, and its density and proximity to China make the achievement particularly noteworthy. [www.theatlantic.com]

Also,

Quote

In late January, just one week after the country’s first case was diagnosed, government officials urged medical companies to develop coronavirus test kits and told manufacturers to prepare for mass production. By mid-February—while the U.K. was talking about “herd immunity” and President Donald Trump was predicting that the virus would “miraculously” disappear in weeks—South Korea was churning out thousands of test kits every day. By March 5, South Korea had tested 145,000 people—more than the U.S., the U.K., France, Italy, and Japan combined.

To spare hospitals from being overrun with patients, as they were in 2015, Korean officials opened 600 testing centers and pioneered the use of drive-through testing stations to reduce face-to-face contact indoors. Inspired by drive-through counters at fast-food restaurants, these pop-up centers offered patients 10-minute tests without forcing them to leave their cars.

Also,

Quote

Juxtaposing the South Korean response with the American tragedy, some commentators have chalked up the difference to an ancient culture of docile collectivism and Confucianism across the Pacific. This observation isn’t just racist. It also exoticizes South Korea’s success and makes it seem like the inevitable result of millennia of cultural accretion, rather than something the U.S., or any other country, can learn from right now. The truth is that the Korean government and its citizens did something simple, admirable, and all too rare: They suffered from history, and they learned from it. [www.theatlantic.com]
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 07:55PM
"Just another point. During Viet Nam, the ROK sent their Special Forces. They wanted to be given an area and left alone. It was well known that you sent them to the most Viet Cong infested areas. After a month or so, there were no more problems. That said, as you went in to the villages, there were piked heads as a warning. That's the mindset of the country."

I guess Vietnam was even closer to Heart of Darkness than previously thought.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 10:32PM
The other thing they have is absolutely no federalism. Each province has little or no autonomy. Which is what the sheeple refuse to understand about the US.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 10:39PM
The real big difference is that South Korea got its sh*t together very early on. America had already gotten all its sh*t together and made it its president.

Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 10:44PM
Had the governors gotten their @#$%& together earlier and not listened to WHO and China, we would have been miles ahead. Learn about federalism, and forget TDS.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 11:40PM
Federalism, pd? There are not many federations actually. Of the first world members, related to the virus, there are USA, Brazil, and Russia all with bad performances. Australia, Canada, and Germany with good performances. Smaller ones like Belgium and Switzerland also doing relatively well.

Federalism is not the determining factor. It is the National will: the ethos.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 11:52PM
It amazes me when reasonably intelligent people can't see that the Trump Administration totally bungled it from the start. It should be common sense that you can't effectively combat a pandemic by creating a situation where you have 50 pseudo countries competing for essential supplies and writing all of their own rules while leaving the borders wide open, all without central coordination. That's a recipe for disaster, which is what we're seeing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2020 12:02AM by Donna.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 16, 2020 11:59PM
Nothing but that orange man's own words is required in timeline fashion to verify his monumentally blithering ineptitude in dealing with this crisis responsibly. As a president and as a human being.

That anyone is so dense and cult-driven as to ignore the evidence of their own eyes and ears to that is flabbergasting beyond words.

Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 17, 2020 07:13AM
"The other thing they have is absolutely no federalism. Each province has little or no autonomy. Which is what the sheeple refuse to understand about the US."

Considerably smaller land area. Federalism isn't necessary there.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 17, 2020 12:27PM
"Federalism, pd? There are not many federations actually. Of the first world members, related to the virus, there are USA, Brazil, and Russia all with bad performances. Australia, Canada, and Germany with good performances. Smaller ones like Belgium and Switzerland also doing relatively well."

Russia is a communist system, ergo a strong central government and few rights given to the republics, krais, oblasts, cities of federal importance. I know they call themselves a "federalist system" (so someone with your knowledge of our system would get confused), but that's like calling DPRK "Democratic" when they've had despots for life. Australia, Canada, and Germany do not have a federalist system at all. They all have a strong central government without enumerated powers, meaning the central government overrode the lower governments in all but a few cases. I really wish you would get this right for fukking once. Of course, even the sheeple in the US don't understand the difference, so there is that. The federal government has NO RIGHT to interfere with the states rights. The ONLY exceptions are enumerated in out constitution. The others are reversed. Those countries give enumerated powers to the lower governments and leave the national government the most power.

As with Katrina, Sandy, COVID, wild fires, floods, etcetcetcc. It is ILLEGAL for the federal government to intervene until the state request the help. That's why Cuomo and Newsome were so quick to declare an emergency. They understand the system. Penis Polis dragged his feet for fukking ever because he (also) thought he couldn't move until the federal government did.

It is ILLEGAL for the federal government or other states to send national guard troops to any other state. California and New York activated troops almost immediately for their own states. That is their right and obligation. For the federal government to send troops (or other federal emergency assistance) without a declaration, is a felony according to the posse comitatus act of 1878 (18 U.S. Code § 1385).

That said, Trump declared a NATIONAL EMERGENCY the day after your beloved WHO declared the virus was "NOW" out of control. You can't ride two horses even when you're one big arse. Either WHO (ergo China) was lying to the world, or they weren't. Everyone please decide.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 17, 2020 06:39PM
"As with Katrina, Sandy, COVID, wild fires, floods, etcetcetcc. It is ILLEGAL for the federal government to intervene until the state request the help." -Olde Dude

True, but a state's government declaring that it is going to ignore the necessary policies and actions to deal with this national pandemic in a responsible, non-sociopathic fashion is more akin to that state seceding and declaring war on the rest of the country. If no one ever went in or out of such a state and they were sealed away to their own suicidal fates and could kill themselves in peace, I'd say fine. Let them stupid themselves to death. But they aren't. What goes on in every state regarding this thing affects all the other states.

I imagine that all other countries are viewing the United States right now like we in sensible, sane states are viewing those idiotic red states. The stupidity of those states is a threat to the rest of the country. As the stupidity of this country is now a threat to the rest of the world.


"Trump declared a NATIONAL EMERGENCY the day after your beloved WHO declared the virus was "NOW" out of control." -OD

Took him fuking long enough. It was a national emergency long before he declared it such. Everyone else knew it. But he held out until the very last minute when he literally couldn't blow it off any longer. Fuking sociopathic maniac.

Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 17, 2020 11:32PM
Yet again, WHO said it was bad, the next day we were in a state of emergency. I've put the timeline out FOUR times now. It was based on the "science" that we were supposed to trust.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 18, 2020 12:38AM
You put out the Trump timeline, not the accurate one. I gave you that. Trump waited 8 weeks before acting.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 18, 2020 01:13AM
If it isn't accurate, please correct and cite.

I do agree that Trump waited 8 weeks from the "Initial" cases that were in China and your "buddies" lied about along with WHO. So what you're saying is Trump should have looked in to a Crystal Ball, gone to the oracle, or other such "unscientific' method to know what was going on. Again, I reject 20/20 hindsight used to play the blame game.
Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 18, 2020 02:26AM
When the very first cases were becoming known in this country, this administration was already in full blown play-down mode. No crystal ball was necessary even before those first cases to know that this thing was going to blow up into a huge pandemic. Knowledgeable officials and medical and virus experts were already screaming their heads off and ringing any bell they could yank the clapper on. OAF's reaction was to send incompetent, virus and pandemic-ignorant teams of administration officials into hospitals and military bases for photo-ops with Covid patients, thereby recklessly and ignorantly spreading the thing around.

At no point throughout this entire crisis has this administration ever taken a single, solitary action to lessen the impact of this pandemic on the population of this country. At every opportunity, this administration insistently made the wrong decision. Every single time. It has never done anything positive in response to Covid-19 until literally forced to by public pressure. Ever.

Re: COVID-19: US vs South Korea
May 18, 2020 02:30AM
You're not following the "science." and it's with 20/20 hindsight.

Also, remember there's a process to do this whole thing. I wouldn't expect me to understand it, but you're supposed to be a US citizen.
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