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Covid being used by governments as a power grab.

Posted by Kairos 
Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 27, 2020 12:37PM
Has anybody else noticed that the governments that failed to prevent the spread of Covid to their countries are now conveniently using the result of their failure as a convenient excuse for a power grab for themselves and for big business?

Deja Vu anyone?

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2020 12:45PM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 27, 2020 08:39PM
Bollocks!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 27, 2020 10:48PM
The level of your ignorance is astounding.

Putin is currently drafting a new constitution that allows him to become dictator for life, and using Covid as a reason to prevent any substantial gatherings to oppose it.

Xi has grabbed even more power in China.

These are just the most overt forms.

In Canada and the US the countries are firing up the printing presses again under conditions which allow them to print vast amounts of money driving the countries even further into debt with hardly any potential opposition.

In Canada much of the country is on lockdown and numerous businesses closed, as a result of the government's failure to prevent Covid from entering the country.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 27, 2020 10:50PM
Interesting article on how the British took advantage of epidemics to gain authoritarian power over the local population in Malta in the 19th century.

[www.maltatoday.com.mt]

"But fighting the plague was the first task undertaken by the first real British Governor of Malta, General Thomas Mait­land.

And he did so by aggressive authoritarian military means in a context of administrative, legal and social chaos.



"The Maltese police force originated as one of Maitland’s tools to fight this bubonic plague epidemic, some 15 years before the London Metropol­itan Police Force was estab­lished.

The plague police was part of a series of disciplinary tech­niques, including fencing off entire villages and shooting to kill plague victims who tried to conceal their infection, by which British disciplinary bio-power was extended in a capillary form throughout Mal­tese territory. These techniques had certain common features, particularly: an authoritarian, military character not subject to judicial review of any form whatsoever; they pitted English soldiers and the Maltese police against the ‘Maltese natives’ in the enclosed villages, who could be shot at sight if they broke quarantine; and they re­sulted in an effective apartheid between the British and the Maltese, such that only one or two British soldiers died when compared to some 5,000 ‘na­tive Maltese’.

After the plague, a long si­lence fell on Maltese political agitation. A reform of Maltese substantive legislation was postponed for a generation. Instead Sir Thomas felt em­powered to pursue a vigorous agenda of authoritarian angli­cisation of the Maltese state, which involved abolishing the Maltese elected body, the Uni­versità, reforming and anglicis­ing the courts and the trial pro­cess, and the introduction of top British officials in the civil service and the judiciary.

This left a profound and dura­ble influence on Maltese state and society. In fact, Maitland left behind a state which was highly authoritarian and where the native population had been cowed into submission and trained to occupy subordinate positions. They tended to avoid mixing with British soldiers and officials, who also held themselves apart and consid­ered themselves to be superior to the ‘natives’.

The disciplinary techniques through which Maitland fought the plague also left an impact which is still discerni­ble today in an enduring fissure between legislative and judicial activity on the one hand and a police force which remains a tool controlled by a ‘sovereign prime minister’ on the other. "


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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2020 11:08PM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 28, 2020 12:18AM
Putin is doing nothing that he did not set in motion before Coronavirus was more than a technical name. X1 has not grabbed more power. He has no more power than the Party Chairman already had; which is virtually absolute. What he did is no more than all countries have in reserve - the equivalent of the Emergency Powers Act. Had democracies been seeing power grabs by leaders, the actions would have been faster and more decisive.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 28, 2020 07:11AM
"Putin is doing nothing that he did not set in motion before Coronavirus was more than a technical name. "

With Covid however he has a perfect excuse to stop any protests during the switch, something he wouldn't have had otherwise. So yes Covid is being used by Putin to grab power.

"What he did is no more than all countries have in reserve - the equivalent of the Emergency Powers Act."

How many times in history has Emergency Powers Acts been used for power grabs? Numerous.

"Had democracies been seeing power grabs by leaders, the actions would have been faster and more decisive. "

That's an amusing excuse. Most democracies didn't even bother to try to stop the spread of Covid to their countries.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2020 07:56AM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 28, 2020 07:38PM
I have always suffered fools because foolishness is in their DNA and they can do little about it. I have never, though, suffered them gladly.

Accordingly, for the duration of this crisis you are on my ignore list.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 28, 2020 10:54PM
I've never suffered fools gladly, which is why I won't let you ignore the fact that the government you support did nothing to stop Covid from spreading to Canada.

The crisis is the result of the failure of the government you support.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2020 10:59PM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
March 29, 2020 09:51AM
A good article about how numerous governments and Big Tech companies are using their Big Brother surveillance systems to tackle Covid and thus gain acceptance for unconstitutional Orwellian mass surveillance.

[www.cnn.com]

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2020 10:06PM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 04, 2020 07:33AM
On the topic of Xi's Covid international power grab and the Canadian government's foolishly having played into it and paying the price as a result.

[www.macleans.ca]

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2020 08:50PM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 04, 2020 08:25PM
In what way does that article have any bearing on a power grab? Actually,for what it is about it is a rather poor commentary. The federal government has not released any such projections because it does not have the information accurately from the Provinces and it is they that collect it. Ford's revelations are wildly inaccurate and an absurd range. Partly because they are based on assumptions made blindly and, therefore, models that are blindfolded. It does not even have the correct death toll: a toll that is significantly higher than stated as the Toronto Star which tracks reports shows.

The only interesting part of the released figures is that they are not as bad as many feared and, therefore, though scary, have really led to a feeling of relief for many.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 04, 2020 08:51PM
For some reason the wrong Maclean's article posted. This is the one about Xi's power grab and China's playing into it:

[www.macleans.ca]

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 04, 2020 09:17PM
And more on Xi's power grab:

"While the world’s attention was focused elsewhere, China used the COVID-19 crisis to quietly arrest Hong Kong residents and demote the official in charge of the Hong Kong office, replacing him with a dedicated ally of President Xi Jinping."

[nationalpost.com]

The article also talks about how Beijing's lies and misinformation campaigns helped the virus spread.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 04, 2020 10:22PM
BREAKING NEWS:

The Powerful Grab for More Power

Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 04, 2020 10:57PM
I am surprised that you keep posting crap from the National Post with your claimed political and social instincts. It is a Right Wing propaganda rag and no more now. Owned by an American Hedge Fund. The author of that article is one of their worst. It has stopped being the chief climate change denial publication after the Courts made it but it is everything else. It can manufacture a storm out of a teacup after a lot of practise.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 12:02AM
Unlike you, my political and social instincts aren't to be blinded by them.

I look at all sources of information and have a distinctive distrust of governments which have been lying through their teeth about this virus the entire time. Even recently you were praising China's handling of the virus.

As for various news media. Don't shoot the messenger if they are critical of governments. Talk about the message. Look and discuss the actual information.

"
"While the world’s attention was focused elsewhere, China used the COVID-19 crisis to quietly arrest Hong Kong residents and demote the official in charge of the Hong Kong office, replacing him with a dedicated ally of President Xi Jinping."
"


Are you saying that that information is false?

And you haven't even mentioned the Maclean's article.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2020 12:05AM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 06:25AM
For the longest time the gummnt wantto there the sheeiiple into the cities to control and taxed. them
Well. now ew see how that works.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 06:46AM
Quote
gonzoland
For the longest time the gummnt wantto there the sheeiiple into the cities to control and taxed. them
Well. now ew see how that works.

Gonzo,
Glad to hear from you. More than one person here thought you might have had a major health situation or worse.




"White power! White power!" --Demented Racist Donald Trump


Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 05:32PM
K- "The article also talks about how Beijing's lies and misinformation campaigns helped the virus spread."

What is a tad upsetting is that this information was out early last month, along with the known lies by WHO. This has been put out many times, and yet people are still supporting the Chinese blatant lies and disinformation campaign.

January 31, 2020- Trump Declares Coronavirus A Public Health Emergency And Restricts Travel From China

February 3, 2020- WHO chief says widespread travel bans not needed to beat China virus

"The World Health Organization is facing a mounting backlash over its handling of China’s cover-up of the novel coronavirus."
WHO leaders, including Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, have run interference for China’s propaganda war meant to absolve the communist nation of responsibility for the global spread of COVID-19.

The WHO is now under increasing pressure from experts and Republican senators.

“A reevaluation of World Health Organization (WHO) leadership is urgently called for,” Republican Texas Sen. Ted Cruz wrote on Facebook Friday.

“By consistently bending to the Chinese Communist Party, from downplaying the severity of the #coronavirus to systematically excluding Taiwan, it has lost the credibility necessary to be effective,” he continued."

A quick synopsis. FYSA, "Dr" Ghebreyesus has a PhD in philosophy.
Top WHO Official Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus Won Election With China’s Help. Now He’s Running Interference For China On Coronavirus

"World Health Organization Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus won his 2017 election with China’s backing.

Tedros is now providing cover for China’s propaganda campaign denying responsibility for the outbreak.

Tedros praised China’s “transparency” and said China’s response to the virus was a model for other nations, though China tried to cover up the virus’s outbreak and silenced whistleblowers.

Tedros is the first-ever WHO chief not to be a medical doctor and was accused of covering up three different cholera epidemics as Ethiopia’s health minister."

Ghebreyesus

When you rise in the morning, give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in yourself.

-Tecumseh
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 07:01PM
Quote
gonzo
For the longest time the gummnt wantto there the sheeiiple into the cities to control and taxed. them
Well. now ew see how that works.

Welcome back, gonzo! We were worried about you. How are you doing? I hope all those misspellings are because you were drunk, or something like that.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 10:33PM
The criticism heaped on China is just swallowing the Trump racism and deflection of blame. The Chinese, as the WHO team conformed, reported tot he WHO as they were obliged to do when they became aware of the outbreak as an outbreak. China actually had the most advanced protocols and systems in the world for discovering and reporting: constructed from the lessons of SARS.

The missing piece was the human factor. The delays were entirely because of local health authorities and administrators not entering the details in the system for their own political reasons so that the extent and development of the viral spread was unknown.

Why not focus on the help and supplies of equipmentthat China is providing to many countries now? Including to the USA.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 10:43PM
I can't believe you are actually believing the bullsht they are putting out. I think it was pb that posted the number of urns sent to funeral homes in china (near the epicenter). I counted 1.25 million. That is just one shipment.

"Why not focus on the help and supplies of equipmentthat China is providing to many countries now?"

Wash Times dated Tuesday, March 17, 2020
"As the war of words between China and the U.S. over COVID-19 heats up, Chinese state media have raised the specter of using Beijing’s pharmaceutical leverage to block critical components and supplies for dependent U.S. drug companies and send America into “the hell of a novel coronavirus epidemic.”"

And they are "helping" the other countries just like the Soviet Union helped Cuba. For their own selfish interests.

When you rise in the morning, give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in yourself.

-Tecumseh
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 10:52PM
Nonsense! The WHO sent a team to China to assess the situation. I think they are more credible than the Washington Times.

Russia also is ending stuff to the US to help, btw. Selfish interests applies to Trump and his export bans. What interests are served by China helping in your recovery or giving South Korea the wherewithal to be one of the few countries to contain the virus before it could reach catastrophic levels?
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 05, 2020 11:52PM
OD indeed. Excellent posts.

All this Russo-Chinese donations is obviously propaganda to improve their public image and in the hope of re-opening exports.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 12:32AM
yetagain- I cannot believe you understand so little about the Chinese. I know you lovelovelove them, but they are run by a dictator for life, they murder their own citizens (routinely), and they knew what was going on from November. It's something THEY invented. I have cited three different articles and have had parts for you to read so you don't have to look them up. The former governor of Wuhan was fired and has "disappeared" along with the governor of Hong Kong, by orders of Xi Jinping.

Chinese Propaganda Successfully Altering Narrative on COVID-19
"New cases of COVID-19 are falling in China and the Communist government is using its response to the crisis as an example of how “state capacity and a collective culture" are superior to democracy.

Indeed, what the Chinese government did to contain the COVID-19 pandemic was draconian and brutal. All 11 million residents of Wuhan had to report their temperature every day. Those in quarantine describe conditions as bad as any prison. Information was so tightly controlled that if you spoke out against what the government was doing, you disappeared. Leaving one's home for any reason was tightly controlled.

But before this happened, there were almost two months of denial that anything was wrong. There was a suppression of the truth, hiding the severity of the outbreak from the international press and international health authorities, which probably sealed the fate of every other nation now afflicted with a COVID-19 pandemic.

All of that has been forgotten today as Chinese propaganda is holding the country up as an example of how to properly respond to the pandemic.

(From the) Financial Times:
"The Chinese propaganda machine is using this turn of events to shower praise on President Xi Jinping and the Chinese system. The People’s Daily recently boasted that, “China can pull together the imagination and courage needed to handle the virus, while the US struggles.” One article for the Xinhua news agency even claimed that Mr Xi’s handling of the crisis demonstrates that he has a “pure heart, like a newborn’s”.

That's standard fare for state media. But, do the propagandists have a point?"

Europe, meanwhile, is now the epicentre of the epidemic. The reluctance of the EU and British governments to take tough measures quickly was partly a failure of imagination. But it also reflected the difficulties that democracies will have in sustaining Chinese-style restrictions for long. With Spain, Italy and France imposing harsh controls on people’s movements, the administrative and social capabilities of European democracy are undergoing an extraordinary stress test."

When you rise in the morning, give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in yourself.

-Tecumseh
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 02:02AM
I can't understand that you understand so little about anything, including China. It makes no difference that they propagandise what they did and are doing. They are doing what the world needs.

Your two months delay is BS. China alerted the WHO to an unusual outbreak on Dec 31st. It was not identified as a new virus until around Jan 9th. That is when the world knew about it and should have been taking action. It was Donald Trump who then delayed for two months. I read, by the way, that a newspaper had looked into federal meical equipment procurements and there the first new ones were mid-March.

As for the epicentre, the US now has around 25% of the world's total of identified cases. It is probably much higher since you are far behind in testing. That is down to your government, not to China.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 04:48PM
You're wrong. Period. Or willfully blind. I vote for uneducated. I've given you four articles that dispute what you've made up. Look, I know you despise the US. I'm not really sure why your hatred won't let you actually look at facts, but that, I guess, is what it is.

Working Latin American, about 97% of the fentanyl produced originates in China. So for eight years, I've been working with the Asian group on China issues.

They've traced it down to November when the Chinese knew they had a problem, and they (the Chinese and WHO) hid the virus. Then they lied about it being able to spread person to person for months. WHO put out the known lie after Trump started the travel ban.

It is one thing to have the most cases, but the "fantastic" European "health care" systems have a much higher death rate on the illness.
US 2%
UK 12%
Italy 12%
France 11%
Belgium 10%
Spain 9%

When you rise in the morning, give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in yourself.

-Tecumseh
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 07:08PM
Not too swift are you, od. I have given you what the WHO said, not an article from a Right Wing paper. Your "knew they had a problem" date is a fantasy. The dates are I gave you are as reported by official sources, not those outlets with an agenda.

Your death rates are malarky. The USA is only beginning to register them as the virus was later striking there and the explosive surge in cases will bring many thousands of deaths in the next few weeks. In Europe, they are now levelling off. You have a horror ahead of you.

I have no patience for conspiracy theories or theorists. That is what your China allegations are.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 07:19PM
The investigation in to WHO, and the crematoriums going 24/7 for over 2 months is a hoax? The Chinese dropping off 2,500 urns to five different funeral homes is a hoax? And that was just one shipment. The fact that you actually believe China and their mouthpieces is amazing to me. Please correct your cranial/rectal inversion. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been caught before lying about Ebola to pad the numbers.

When you rise in the morning, give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in yourself.

-Tecumseh
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 07:25PM
Based on Total Cases and Total Deaths figures someone posted on Facebook a few days ago. I have no idea what the source was for that data, but I calculated the per capita figures below from it.

Per Capita Cases

Spain .2549%
Italy .1982%
Germany .1088%
France .0986%
Netherlands .0918%
US .0837%
Iran .0633 %
UK .0562%

Per Capita Deaths

Italy .0243%
Spain .0240%
France .0100%
Netherlands .0087%
UK .0053%
Iran .0039%
US .0022%
Germany .0015%
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 07:59PM
Btw, the raw data my per capita figures were calculated from are the figures that appear when you do a Google search on COVID-19 cases.

I just calculated the per capita CV cases in NYC. It's 1.4%
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 08:02PM
Okay. I'm not that worried about per capita. That said, the more people sick, the more deaths, so I see your point.

I still like what Newsome did. Good leader. He made some really good solid decisions. I figured LA would look like walking dead by now. He proved me wrong, which is a good thing in this case.

NYC is a typical shtshow. But that is the citizens' fault. The subway system is still loaded, parties, etc. Not the governor's or mayor's fault at all. Again, Americans are still doing stupid stuff. It's that attitude of "no one can tell me to stay home." Hopefully, reasonable folks will limit that though.

My county is hanging in at 3 cases. Not a shock, it's really easy to socially distance yourself here.

I'm holding on for another evaluation in about 2-3 weeks. We'll see where it goes.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 06, 2020 08:18PM
"My county is hanging in at 3 cases. Not a shock, it's really easy to socially distance yourself here."

All the propaganda here is that we need more urban densification yet this has highlighted very well that urban densification is one of the worst things possible for health.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
April 08, 2020 12:15PM
"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

- Rahm Emanuel

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
May 21, 2020 07:18PM
More on Xi's power grab, passing legislation to suppress Hong Kong protests at a time when COVID can be used as a justification to prevent dissent:

[www.cbc.ca]

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
July 01, 2020 08:09AM
Xi continues with his power grab over Hong Kong:

"Beijing passes sweeping national security law for Hong Kong"

[www.cbc.ca]

This one is essentially the end of any semblance Hong Kong had of being independent. Political protest has been deemed an offense worthy of life imprisonment.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2020 06:42PM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
July 01, 2020 07:54PM
Hannah Arendt wrote about totalitarianism, tyranny and isolation or loneliness. Totalitarianism appeals to people who are isolated and lonely. It will appeal to people to abandon reason and law and the response will be receptive. Obviously in much more depth but that is as I recall her thesis.

It is in the nature of all governments to proceed some distance along that path and a pandemic and social isolation are rich breeding grounds.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
July 01, 2020 09:24PM
"It is in the nature of all governments to proceed some distance along that path and a pandemic and social isolation are rich breeding grounds. "

And when I pointed that out in the Thread title/op you wrote:

"Bollocks!"

And when I noted that Xi has used the opportunity for a power grab, you wrote:

"X1 has not grabbed more power."

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2020 09:26PM by Kairos.
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
July 01, 2020 09:46PM
Quote
Kairos
"It is in the nature of all governments to proceed some distance along that path and a pandemic and social isolation are rich breeding grounds. "

And when I pointed that out in the Thread title/op you wrote:

"Bollocks!"

And when I noted that Xi has used the opportunity for a power grab, you wrote:

"X1 has not grabbed more power."

This is what you said and it is not the same thing at all. You tried to link it to your misunderstanding of border controls. And to make it about business influence.

"Has anybody else noticed that the governments that failed to prevent the spread of Covid to their countries are now conveniently using the result of their failure as a convenient excuse for a power grab for themselves and for big business?"
Re: Covid being used by governments as a power grab.
July 01, 2020 09:50PM
I said:

"Covid being used by governments as a power grab. "

As you yourself noted that is correct when you said:

"It is in the nature of all governments to proceed some distance along that path and a pandemic and social isolation are rich breeding grounds. "




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"Has anybody else noticed that the governments that failed to prevent the spread of Covid to their countries are now conveniently using the result of their failure as a convenient excuse for a power grab for themselves and for big business?"


And what has happened? The big monopolies like Amazon are making a fortune from this, while the public is being f^cked over by the ruling class, which has been able to get away with what it could not possibly have gotten away with before e.g. increasing the debt by over 100 billion dollars to buy the next election in Canada.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2020 09:53PM by Kairos.
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