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This isn't complicated. 2020 is a referendum on Trump.

The job of the Biden campaign is simple, and Trump is helping.
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pb
Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 05:21PM
Okay. I'm a geezer. And, except for reruns, this is too old even for me.

Remember the old Perry Mason Show?

Perry was a criminal defense attorney extraordinaire. The show ran over 250 episodes. Week after week, his client seemed to be guilty of a crime. The client would be arrested by Lieutenant Tragg and prosecuted by Perry's regular opponent, District Attorney Hamilton Burger.

Week after week, the prosecution would present its case. And, in episode after episode, it seemed impossible that Perry'd find away to keep his, by all appearances, guilty client out of jail, or worse, the gas chamber.

As Burger presented his case, witness after witness built a compelling case. All of the prosecution's witnesses sang the same tune. The evidence was real and undeniable. Every witness was sincere and honest. Burger believed in his evidence. He believed in the defendant's guilt. Often, the prosecutor was motivated by righteous indignation. He was fueled by a commitment to justice.

Yet, after Burger presented his case, Perry had an opportunity to present another explanation of the evidence to judge and jury. And...to present the evidence the prosecution ignored.

The viewer of a Perry Mason episode learned to wait to hear the full story because there always is another side to the story.

As compelling as Burger's interpretation of the evidence seemed to be, there always was another way to interpret the facts. There always was more evidence.

Our friends here: Po, Donna and Curt apparently never watched Perry turn the tables on Hamilton Burger, or they're so intoxicated by their own bloodlust that they don't want to consider that there may be more to the impeachment story than they want to admit.

Adam Schiff, as he engineers the impeachment train, seems every bit as convinced and righteous as was the, ultimately hapless, District Attorney who prosecuted Perry's innocent clients. Yet, Po, Donna and Curt have already deliberated and voted guilty.

Two thoughts:

1. As tempting as it may be to think that all of the evidence in the Trump impeachment saga is known, there's probably more to the story.

2. I haven't ever suggested that Trump shouldn't be impeached only that it's extremely likely that much more will be known by the time the entire story is told by both sides.

Actually, many people don't know that Perry didn't always win his case.

I'm very able to believe that Trump might be impeachable.

But, I know enough to wait until it's likely that all the cards are on the table. That's not happened yet. Not by a long shot.
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 05:42PM
So if I am hearing you right, you simply will not look at any of the evidence at all until the whole thing is finished...? Then you'll be willing to look at the evidence and make a decision about what your opinion is...?

pb, you are also seemingly laboring under the misapprehension that Curt, Donna, or I would ignore any truly exculpatory evidence if it was ever presented. I would absolutely love to see some. I've been begging for someone to present some in here. It's just that so far, in the face of a gigantic pile of damning evidence and testimony that shows Individual-1 to be incredibly guilty, no one in his cult has been able to present a single shred of anything that is exculpatory for him in the slightest. It's just hard to imagine what there might be that they haven't been able to find in their desperate flailings to defend their Glorious Orange Leader.

pb
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:02PM
pb, you are also seemingly laboring under the misapprehension that Curt, Donna, or I would ignore any truly exculpatory evidence if it was ever presented.

No. Don't buy it, po. It's an apprehension.

You have made it clear that the evidence at hand satisfies you.

The way that the House Dems are handling the impeachment thing, Perry Mason won't be able to make his case until the Senate gets the case. And, that's fine with you and already passing judgment. You're convinced knowing only Hamilton Burger's case.

You're constantly criticizing me for ignoring the mountain of evidence already at hand.

Of course, I'm willing to consider the evidence at hand. What I'm not willing to do is pass judgment only on Hamilton Burger's case.

You're itchin to pull the trigger.

I'm circumspect. You ain't.
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:20PM
Bad read on US (again). So far, nothing that's been leaked from the closed-door hearings indicates that the Republicans who were part of the questioning have uncovered anything that refutes the testimonies of any of the people they've questioned, who btw have all corroborated each others' testimonies. That's why all we're hearing from the Republicans is a lot if fist pounding and meritless complaints regarding procedure.
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:24PM
"You have made it clear that the evidence at hand satisfies you." -pb

I was convinced that this man was a wantonly corrupt con man before he was even elected. My mind was long ago settled on his character and just what he is capable of. All based on more and more evidence that constantly comes to light almost every day for over three years that does nothing but thoroughly corroborate my already made up mind about him. So when I see a mountain of evidence about a specific crime he committed without a molecule of anything even remotely exculpatory provided by his devoted defenders, I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying that this one time I just might be wrong about him. That this one time maybe he didn't commit the crime that all the evidence so far proves he committed.

I'm quite comfortable playing those odds.

Perry Mason has been absolutely silent so far, pb. This hasn't been a take turns kinda thing. Ignoring of course that the GOP has had exactly as much time to call and cross examine witnesses and present evidence. Mason has been perfectly free to toot his horn and make whatever case to the public he wants to with whatever he thinks is exculpatory evidence in response to the wildly damning evidence that has come to light so far. And apparently, he hasn't got a single thing that has been helpful to Individual-1 at all. That's not the Democrats' fault. My guess is that he already knows that this is gonna be one of the cases that he ends up losing. Badly in fact.


"Of course, I'm willing to consider the evidence at hand" -pb

Then what is stopping you? You've never made any indication that you have read a sentence of it. In fact, quite the opposite.

pb
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:35PM
Quote
Donna
Bad read on US (again). So far, nothing that's been leaked from the closed-door hearings indicates that the Republicans who were part of the questioning have uncovered anything that refutes the testimonies of any of the people they've questioned, who btw have all corroborated each others' testimonies. That's why all we're hearing from the Republicans is a lot if fist pounding and meritless complaints regarding procedure.

Donna,

Back in the day, I'd watch Burger lay out his case and, knowing how the show would probably end, wonder what the rest of the case might be.

And, I learned that, as compelling as the evidence may be, you don't know the whole story until you know the whole story.

I'm aware that the Trump thing could, very well, go like the Nixon thing went and that, when the whole story's known, it will be more obvious than it SEEMS now that Trump must be impeached.

But, I also know that there's going to be a lot more to the story than is known now.

The three of you seem awfully anxious to pass judgment.

And, I can see no legitimate reason to so that so early in the process based on what's going on behind closed doors.

Don't you think it's foolish to conclude that what's been leaked is necessarily reliable or even representative of all that is known?
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:35PM
It's also foolhardy to believe that Perry Mason episodes portray what typically happens in criminal cases.
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:39PM
To your last line, in these particular proceedings, no.
pb
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:41PM
Of course, I'm willing to consider the evidence at hand" -pb

Then what is stopping you? You've never made any indication that you have read a sentence of it. In fact, quite the opposite.

I'm willing to consider it. What I'm not willing to do is pass judgment based on it.

You are prejudging.

In the purest sense of the word, you are prejudiced. Shame on you!
pb
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:42PM
Quote
Donna
To your last line, in these particular proceedings, no.

Yikes. Why?
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:45PM
This forum isn't a courtroom, pb. One of the things all sides like to do on this forum ( and actually on all political forums ) is speculate.
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 06:46PM
Why? Because the testimonies have all been so corroborative.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2019 06:46PM by Donna.
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 07:06PM
"I'm willing to consider it. What I'm not willing to do is pass judgment based on it." -pb

So are you still in the considering if you'll even look at it phase...? How can you consider something you refuse to even examine?


"This forum isn't a courtroom, pb. One of the things all sides like to do on this forum ( and actually on all political forums ) is speculate." -Donna

pb likes to speculate quite often in here. He's actually perfectly happy not reserving judgement a lot. He will make prognostications based on evidence he has considered and he makes declarations and pass judgement about certain outcomes all the time. And always when he knows he is right. He even loves parading around crowing about it on any occasion when he is. We're just not allowed to do the same thing is all. sad smiley

It's only when he isn't sure of an outcome, or doesn't like what the likely outcome will be that he starts blathering on about how others should be reserving judgement like he does. He's not sure, so therefore no one else should be.

Disingenuous cuss.

Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 07:18PM
The Hamilton Burgers in this saga are clearly Devin Nunes, Jim Jordan and other Republicans attempting to defend Trump. Like Burger they constantly whine about the "process", the opposing side's theatrics, and are consistently two steps behind.

Trump WILL be impeached. After a preliminary trial in the lower court of the US Senate, Trump's fate will be decided in a higher court: the US electorate next November. The televised proceedings will provide the voters plenty of evidence on which we can base our judgement.

Incidentally one of the arguments that Republicans have been using is that the Democrats are trying to undo the 2016 election. It is a safe conclusion that Trump will not be convicted in the Senate, but if he is will be thanks to the Republicans. The most likely outcome is that voters will realize their error of 2016.




"White power! White power!" --Demented Racist Donald Trump


pb
Re: Po, Donna, even Curt don't Realize that Adam Schiff in Merely Hamilton Burger
November 11, 2019 08:02PM
pb likes to speculate quite often in here. He's actually perfectly happy not reserving judgement a lot. He will make prognostications based on evidence he has considered...

Big difference. All the difference in the world!

I'll predict that the House will impeach Trump but I won't pass judgment on him myself when there's still so much unsaid and done.
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