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I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice

Posted by nitou 
I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 15, 2019 12:39AM
Having too many choices is stressful. It makes people paralyzed with anxiety over which choice they should make. They doubt their choice after they made it. Businesses have learned that customers are more satisfied if they have fewer choices. Maybe it's true of healthcare too. It's just too paralyzing to have more options, it's better for people to only have a government health insurance plan. If people have no other options, they won't be dissatisfied.

Why too much choice is stressing us out
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 15, 2019 12:57AM
Quote
nitou
Having too many choices is stressful. It makes people paralyzed with anxiety over which choice they should make. They doubt their choice after they made it. Businesses have learned that customers are more satisfied if they have fewer choices. Maybe it's true of healthcare too. It's just too paralyzing to have more options, it's better for people to only have a government health insurance plan. If people have no other options, they won't be dissatisfied.

Why too much choice is stressing us out

Having been in marketing for most of my adult life, I can tell that business knows that a limited choice is preferable. If you are selling widgets, in particular Widget model 1, Widget model 2, and Widget model 3 your customer has a choice 1, 2, 3 or nothing. If you are only selling one model of Widget, the customer's choice is to buy or not buy. Too many choices isn't good because the customer is overwhelmed with choices. Three choices is about right: They are often referred to as Good, Better and Best.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 15, 2019 03:33AM
It explains why the masses are so easily herded in a two party system.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 15, 2019 04:46AM
Actually it does not. They are anti choice because choice would make the system unworkable and far more costly.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 15, 2019 09:00AM
A two tiered healthcare system has the possibility of both if done properly.

A public system for all that everyone pays into.

And private if people want to pay extra on top of that.

That would actually save the government a lot of money.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 15, 2019 03:19PM
Valiant effort though, nitou.

Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 12:50AM
Quote
Kairos
A two tiered healthcare system has the possibility of both if done properly.

A public system for all that everyone pays into.

And private if people want to pay extra on top of that.

That would actually save the government a lot of money.

I agree with this. One reason is because the list of possible options people might want for health care is just to big to be covered with a public plan, and some options might be controversial. For example, transgender care might be considered medically unnecessary. Planned Parenthood is controversial, but I would like to see public reproductive health care that almost everyone can agree to. That means it wouldn't cover most abortions. Or someone might want alternative care that is not covered by a public plan. It is my opinion that Western medical care has some strengths in developing life-saving procedures and drugs, but also has the weakness of lacking knowledge of some areas like holistic care where other traditions are stronger. Western medicine is particularly weak in dealing with chronic pain. If the free market is free to develop ideas, then good ideas could be implemented into the public plan.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 01:07AM
Quote
nitou
For example, transgender care might be considered medically unnecessary.

In order to get sex reassignment surgery, you need written approval from a psychiatrist. SRS is already considered medically necessary (but of course optional for the patient) for transsexualism.

My TG friend who is getting everything taken care of through MediCal has had to be very persistent along the way, but so far, she's gotten everything associated with transition that she's wanted. SRS is the last step.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 02:12AM
Donna, if it's medically necessary then it should be covered. I don't have a problem with it but you know the religionists would favor their fake "treatments." Admittedly I have trouble understanding because I don't identify very strongly with gender. I'm happy with being a woman, but if the body was a man then I would be a man. I would have testosterone instead of estrogen and it would make me a man. That's how I perceive it.

I wonder if it is related to this: Traits of Temperament

Helen Fisher devised a dating test that reliably matched people. I never dated online but went through a phase when I was really into MBTI, Enneagram, etc. Helen Fisher's profile associated different personality traits with different hormones: Dopamine, Estrogen, Serotonin and Testosterone. These hormones have different influences on your temperament. Each person has one dominant and one secondary in their personality profile. I took the test and it had the results with estrogen as the dominant influence and testosterone as the secondary influence. It seems to correlate with my perception that I am female due to the body being female. But straight/cis men and women can have the opposite sex hormone dominant in their personality profile, so I don't know if there is any correlation with gender/sexual orientation.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 02:17AM
Quote
nitou
Donna, if it's medically necessary then it should be covered.

Right, and that's exactly the grounds on which my friend has built her case and so far has gotten everything she's wanted. Social services has done their best to frustrate and discourage her, but she's been very perseverant.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 02:23AM
I've taken personality tests like that several times. I don't think it's related to that. It is what it is, and although there are some commonalities between TGs, there are more differences. We're all so different. I, too, don't identify with one sex over another. I never felt like the classic "woman trapped in a man's body". But I'm happy I did it. I'm 19-and-a-half years post-op.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 04:16AM
A private system with extras on top of it would not save the government any money if there were a comprehensive public plan. It would, however, encourage a "Right" leaning government to reduce the number of illnesses it would cover. It would also divert doctors from the public plan and slow access to care.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 04:11PM
If people were aware of history and thinking clearly, communists would be hated as much as Nazis because they are the same. But progressives and communists already have so much propaganda control over are country and that's why people are not instantly revolted by them.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 07:22PM
Quote
nitou
If people were aware of history and thinking clearly, communists would be hated as much as Nazis because they are the same. But progressives and communists already have so much propaganda control over are country and that's why people are not instantly revolted by them.

If you were aware of what your country s about, you would know what a foolish statement that is. Your media is overwhelmingly controlled by Right Wing sources and that Right Wing propaganda has dominated the American videoscape for forty years.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 07:27PM
Communists have propaganda control over America?

What are you smoking, nitou?
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 11:47PM
"A private system with extras on top of it would not save the government any money if there were a comprehensive public plan. It would, however, encourage a "Right" leaning government to reduce the number of illnesses it would cover. It would also divert doctors from the public plan and slow access to care. "

Access to public healthcare specialists is currently ridiculously slow. The number of specialists are actually limited by the government under the public system.

By allowing a two tiered system, this could free up valuable time and resources on the public health care system, while still providing public healthcare and in fact more efficiently as it should free up queues.

Unfortunately the right can always mess things up, but overly rigid dogma on the left can also be counterproductive.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 16, 2019 11:52PM
It would be slower for the general public with a two tier system. Logically and you can work it out. And. the number of specialist is not limited by the government. They are not employees and anyone who can qualify or land an internship can specialise.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 17, 2019 02:54AM
Quote
meagain
Quote
nitou
If people were aware of history and thinking clearly, communists would be hated as much as Nazis because they are the same. But progressives and communists already have so much propaganda control over are country and that's why people are not instantly revolted by them.

If you were aware of what your country s about, you would know what a foolish statement that is. Your media is overwhelmingly controlled by Right Wing sources and that Right Wing propaganda has dominated the American videoscape for forty years.

Indeed, they would have the same goals. Both are true.

Quote
Donna
Communists have propaganda control over America?

What are you smoking, nitou?

There are communists behind the feminist movement. The founder of the first women's shelter was kicked out of her own organization. Communists stole her books from the stores and killed her dog. Their goal is not about women's rights but changing society to fit their vision. They have tremendous influence. But they're not the only nefarious power-seekers hiding under the umbrella of modern Western feminism.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 17, 2019 05:15AM
Don't be silly. It is enough with txcup's conspiracies.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 17, 2019 04:12PM
Meagain it is not really worth my time to respond to you because you're a self-righteous, anti-choice tyrant anyway. Every "conspiracy" I write about is fact, or I will let you know when I'm speculating, unlike txcup and gonzo. Any readers who are curious about communists infiltrating and taking over the women's movement can look up Erin Pizzey and read her book Prone to Violence that is freely available online.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 17, 2019 05:25PM
Socialism is for people too stupid to think for themselves.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 17, 2019 07:14PM
Quote
nitou
Meagain it is not really worth my time to respond to you because you're a self-righteous, anti-choice tyrant anyway. Every "conspiracy" I write about is fact, or I will let you know when I'm speculating, unlike txcup and gonzo. Any readers who are curious about communists infiltrating and taking over the women's movement can look up Erin Pizzey and read her book Prone to Violence that is freely available online.

You excel at twittering.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 17, 2019 09:44PM
"It would be slower for the general public with a two tier system. Logically and you can work it out. And. the number of specialist is not limited by the government. They are not employees and anyone who can qualify or land an internship can specialise."

This is what actually happens. My uncle a couple years ago needed a hip replaced. He was told that he would have to wait 4 years to have a hip replaced in Canada. So he drives across the border and gets his hip replaced for 20,000 dollars.

The vast majority of Canadians live 100 miles from the US border. For many this is their option rather than waiting for great extended periods of time to get specialist operations. Others travel to other countries to get operations done.

This results in vast amounts of money leaving the country unnecessarily. A two tier system, would help that considerably in that those who want immediate medical care would not have to travel abroad to get expensive medical treatment and as a result sending that money out of country.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 17, 2019 09:54PM
Most of the American population would not have that choice: if they had, there would be the same waiting time. It is an unequal sysytem and that is not what Canada or any civilised country needs.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 01:56AM
I'm not suggesting the American system as an alternative.

I'm suggesting a two tier system in Canada as alternative.

As it is the point furthers my case. Canadians are clogging up the American system, because they aren't getting timely treatment here.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2019 01:56AM by Kairos.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 10:56AM
K- "This is what actually happens. My uncle a couple years ago needed a hip replaced. He was told that he would have to wait 4 years to have a hip replaced in Canada. So he drives across the border and gets his hip replaced for 20,000 dollars.

The vast majority of Canadians live 100 miles from the US border. For many this is their option rather than waiting for great extended periods of time to get specialist operations. Others travel to other countries to get operations done."


K, This is the QUALITY of care issue I keep harping on. ALL socialized medicine has this issue. It's not a horrible thing, just a fact. Again, my son torn his ACL in March. We still have no idea when he will have surgery (VA/ socialized).

Governments are very slow to respond to medical issues because of how the money moves in a federal system. Requests for funding are made three years in advance. The money for next year was given to agency heads the beginning of the physical year (in this case 2019). They have to have their budgets ready to turn in by the beginning of the fiscal year, two years ahead. It takes an agency almost a year to collect the information to request funding.

The public sector is much more nimble in responding to treatment systems, usually negotiated about nine months ahead (instead of 36 months). This allows the company to look at the costs the year before and come up with numbers. The purchasing company (or agency) can then choose what they want, and plug those numbers in to their and their employees costs.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 07:12PM
Quote
Kairos
I'm not suggesting the American system as an alternative.

I'm suggesting a two tier system in Canada as alternative.

As it is the point furthers my case. Canadians are clogging up the American system, because they aren't getting timely treatment here.

You should take a little time to think about this. Pure logic alone would convince you that you are wrong. It is very obvious that a collateral Private system takes resources away from the Public system and reduces its effectiveness and increases wait times. That cannot be argued. Canadians do get timely treatment. It is only for elective surgeries that there is a problem. A problem that could be fixed if we could get the Right Wing out of the way and its limiting of resources and money to the system.

Canadians do not clog up the American system. That is an absurd claim. The numbers who go to the US are tiny in the American context and are only a portion of the Canadian population. A portion that can afford to pay American prices. Most would not dream of it. I know of many people who have waited and had these various electives. I have not met any who went to the US for surgery.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 07:21PM
Put your bias aside, od. The private sector does not respond faster. In fact, there is far more bureaucracy involved in Private care. In a government programme, the funding is certain and allocatable long in advance and there is only a Ministry and its employees involved. Governments also respond faster to medical issues than Private sectors do. It takes only one set of decision makers not an industry that needs to be convinced. The evidence for that is that the US barely makes the top 40 countries overall and is far behind every country with universal coverage in the quality of the system. It is even as low as 70th. in the outcomes of certain illnesses.

It has poor outcomes and the highest costs. The highest costs for your government as well as its citizens.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 07:25PM
"You should take a little time to think about this. Pure logic alone would convince you that you are wrong. It is very obvious that a collateral Private system takes resources away from the Public system and reduces its effectiveness and increases wait times."

How can wait times actually get worse than 4 years?

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 08:46PM
meagain. I actually understand how our government works. It's not a bias, it's a fukking fact.

Neither turn on a dime. They ONLY way the US can respond to a medical emergency is through a funding bill that passes in the house, and by a 2/3 majority in the senate. Period. Traditionally, the only time that happens is during the bargaining in Sept (up to January if there's a CR).
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 09:25PM
You do not understand at all how it works. You make that clear. In all universal, single payer programmes, funding is established at a level that will be maintained and not approved or disapproved. It may be reviewed as to the level occasionally. It is done by an Act of Parliament, Congress or whatever) that will not alter unless by political decision.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 09:48PM
yetagain- "In all universal, single payer programmes, funding is established at a level that will be maintained and not approved or disapproved."

How the UK rations health care

"We have a limited budget for health care, voted by Parliament every year, and we have to live within our means," said Michael Rawlins, chairman of a government agency called the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE). NICE decides which drugs and other treatments can be prescribed by NHS doctors."

"Rationing care is a fact of life for the NHS"

"Rationing is nothing new, of course. When waiting lists stretched to many months and even years, treatment was often rationed simply by the patient dying before they reach the operating table. Heart surgery was a striking example of this. The long waits in A&E departments acted as another form of rationing."

"Health Rationing In England: Obese And Smokers Banned From Routine Surgery"

"Vale of York Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG) stated:
The local system is under severe pressure. Hospitals are being warned they will not be paid for surgery if they carry out operations on obese patients who are not exempt from the policy. This work will help to ensure that we get the very best value from the NHS and not exceed our resources or risk the ability of the NHS being there when people really need it.
Chris Hopson, the head of NHS Providers, warned, “I think we are going to see more and more decisions like this. It’s the only way providers are going to be able to balance their books, and in a way you have to applaud their honesty. You can see why they’re doing this — the service is bursting at the seams.”"
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 09:53PM
That doees not change what I said. They may review it annually but the amount is fixed unless altered by Parliament.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 18, 2019 10:20PM
British system. I know you don't believe this, but ours is different and how I described it. From the time it hits our Office of Management and Budget, there are two years before implementation. 2021's budget will hit OMB in November, so they can review it, send it back and forth to the agencies for 6-8 months (they in turn, have to send it down to the bureaus, then divisions, etc). Once that is done, they will print it and send it to congress (~July 2020). Theoretically it will be voted on in Sept, but that never happens and they may approve a CR. If they don't, we have a government shutdown until it's approved. And with this congress, it may be January before agencies can get their money.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 19, 2019 12:12AM
Actually, I don't think we're far off. What you are describing is the last 10% of mine. I actually understand what goes in to a federal budget other than the faeries picking money off the trees in the enchanted forests. There is actually a process that all (at least US) agencies have to go through.

How many people do you have, how much do they cost in payroll, extras, the business's (in this case, the government) part of Social Security, Worker's Comp, etc.

If it's a socialized medicine (just an example), then how many flu shots, open heart surgeries, knee replacements, hip replacements, mammograms', tubal ligations, births, etcetcetc. How much are you putting away for Band-Aids, syringes, drugs, etc. You have to price them all out, which means you have to guess at the cost. The agencies negotiate with OMB. At some point they strike a bargain when OMB tells the agency what it's going to get.

Jump to two years out. Plague or cholera (or some such nonsense) breaks out. If the government feels it necessary to fund it, they can. But they earmark the money for that specific project. Not for knee and hip surgery. The VA had this issue with the number of women that were wounded and had cancer. It took the VA more than two years to catch up on that. Also, they had to build additional bathrooms for the number of women now using the facilities. It was pretty weird. But the number of women with 100% disability rose over ten-fold in a very short time (meaning the women were using the VA for their primary or only care). There were funds specifically set up to meet those needs the VA could not use anywhere else.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 19, 2019 12:49AM
I really do not know what you are arguing. Not everything i=s allocated or controlled by annual appropriations. A healthcare programme can be the same.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 19, 2019 02:12AM
Unfortunately, in the US, if it's not "appropriated funds" there is no guarantee it can legally get funded. That's our law.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 19, 2019 06:27PM
I think you misunderstand your law. Programmes such as Medicaid are mandatory spending and not subject to annual review. They can only be changed by Act of Congress. All Healthcare can be the same wit review of the amount to be "allocated" at specified intervals and negotiated.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 19, 2019 06:43PM
It's going broke now....

What baffles me is how you use UK "standards" with the US, claiming they're the same systems, when they are not. OUR constitution limits our government, not the people. Yours enslaves the people, and empowers the government.
Re: I think I found out why progressives are anti-choice
September 19, 2019 10:24PM
You trying to prove what we suspect? That you are an idiot? Your Constitution virtually ignores the people and is all about empowering elites. The British system has an actual working checks and balances.As do most Parliamentary systems.

The American system was built on and designed for the merchant and landed class and it has entrenched those classes. What country was Thoreau (for one) writing about when he wrote of enslavement to the industrial machine? He wrote that in the times when the great Reform Acts were being passed in England.

When did I ever say the systems were the same UK and USA? They are poles apart. If the UK had the same system, th world would not have become largely democratic in its Institutions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2019 10:26PM by meagain.
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