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Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?

Posted by Ponderer 
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 16, 2019 10:25PM
Oh my yes, a fledgling bunch of traitors going up against the mightiest navy and military in the world at the time was highly pragmatic. Success was guaranteed!

But getting back to your argument, explain again how we can't afford to spend less for healthcare like every civilized country can...?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2019 10:38PM by Ponderer.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 16, 2019 11:31PM
Quote
Ponderer
Oh my yes, a fledgling bunch of traitors going up against the mightiest navy and military in the world at the time was highly pragmatic. Success was guaranteed!

But getting back to your argument, explain again how we can't afford to spend less for healthcare like every civilized country can...?

We can spend less. But Medicare-for-all as described by you and Bernie Sanders isn't how it will happen. There are examples of successful alternatives in keeping with America's capitalist ethos. Nor would it go against American's reluctance to give up something they already have and like. Many of those countries that you think are what we would aspire to have private insurance companies as the basis of their healthcare system.

Success doesn't have to be guaranteed, it just has to be possible. There is simply no way M4A will get the needed 60 votes in the US Senate. Anybody who says so is either naive or lying.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 16, 2019 11:37PM
I think you misunderstand what Insurance is, Curt. All universal schemes are insurance based. But, it is true insurance. Equal payment for all. They are still universal single payer. Those who can't afford basic are subsidised.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 16, 2019 11:45PM
The original NHS in Britain covered optical, dental and pharmaceutical care . The expense of the system led to some charges for optical and dental and prescriptions.

Interesting is that the NHS was the vision and creation of Aneurin Bevan. Bevan who famously said (more eloquently) that "Conservatives are "lower than vermin."
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 17, 2019 12:25AM
Quote
meagain
I think you misunderstand what Insurance is, Curt. All universal schemes are insurance based. But, it is true insurance. Equal payment for all. They are still universal single payer. Those who can't afford basic are subsidised.


No I don't misunderstand. The Swiss and Dutch, for example, pay private insurance companies for their health insurance. M4A, as Ponderer has repeatedly said, would eliminate private insurance companies. What you said about optical, dental and pharmaceutical care in the NHS is interesting and instructive.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 17, 2019 12:51AM
"Here's a helpful little tip, Olde Dude. When you start out a post directed at me with a ridiculous, bald-faced lie about me right out of the gate, I usually don't even read any farther than that. What would be the point if you are determined to miss it? When you go to all the trouble of writing a response to me that you begin by lying about me, you are loudly telegraphing that the rest of it is likely nothing but one big long pile of bullshit to hide the fact that you won't or can't actually answer the question. I would ask you which part of "paying more for less" you are having trouble with, but it is obviously the "getting less" part. I have very obviously all along been championing the idea of getting more and better coverage along with paying less for it."

You were able to wordsmith ANYTHING you wanted to say to title this thread. "Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?" (See above, I shouldn't have to hot key it)

Secondly, against all the statistics that there are, in fact longer wait times for specialists globally in socialized, you don't accept that would be an "issue" with berniecare, which he says gets rid of ALL other health care in the US (much akin to Canada, GB, France, Germany, etcetcetc. He also states some of his cost savings is paying medical staff less. Again, why should I go to that much school if I don't get paid for it. Berniecare is a Marxist model based in what he knows about the VA. And yes, I did read at nauseum about berniecare (both sides), and I actually have knowledge of the VA that you absolutely don't.

FYSA- by not wanting to get in the middle of this discussion, I was actually trying a truce that I wouldn't step in to this so you could pick a fight. There is nothing I can say that you will agree with even if I would agree with you. So go on your rants. Neither of us will change our view. Deal with that.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 17, 2019 01:52AM
So. It is fear then. I understand.

Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 17, 2019 05:10PM
Curt- "The Swiss and Dutch, for example, pay private insurance companies for their health insurance. M4A, as Ponderer has repeatedly said, would eliminate private insurance companies. What you said about optical, dental and pharmaceutical care in the NHS is interesting and instructive."

Actually, she's just parroting what Sander's said. The first step is to let the hospitals keep in business until the government strangles them. Then the government takeover of the hospitals as they die. It's a perfect Marxist coup.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2019 05:22PM by OldeDude.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 17, 2019 07:21PM
In both the Netherlands and Switzerland, health insurance is mandatory and cheap. Companies are not allowed to refuse care to anyone. There are also significant government subsidies. Both also have prescription drug coverage as mandatory.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 06:06AM
Actually olde dude's just parroting what the privatization nuts are doing in reverse to the VA.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 02:30PM
No, it's because OldeDude thinks that socialism is for people too stupid or lazy to make their own decisions.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 04:33PM
Non sequitur.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 04:38PM
Astounding level of baseless paranoia you're fostering there Olde Dude.

Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 05:09PM
It's interesting that you (the inclusive) absolutely do not allow others their own opinion. You use "examples" of countries that still have monarchies, which have no relevance to the US constitution. We actually had a war to kick the nancies out of our country to create something new. Something that allows people to be better than the generation before them. If that isn't working for you, it's your fault.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 05:23PM
Now that's what I call a dodge.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 05:57PM
Non sequitur.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 06:39PM
Who is saying that you aren't allowed your own opinion, OD? You are allowed your own opinion all you want. Wallow away in it. Knock yourself out. Your opinion is simply wrong is all.

Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 06:40PM
You're so paranoid.

Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 06:49PM
"No, it's because OldeDude thinks that socialism is for people too stupid or lazy to make their own decisions."

That is exactly on point. I just answered the question in your thread.
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 07:01PM
An opinion that you are totally free to have with my blessings.

The fact that it's wrong notwithstanding.

Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 07:47PM
There's how we disagree. I will say I disagree. You say "you're wrong" and usually throw a "god damned mother f*cking flaming liar" in there somewhere
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 11:17PM
Only when you tell a god damned mother f*cking lie about me, Oh-Dee.

Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 20, 2019 11:20PM
R-i-i-ight. Like od never accuses others of lying. eye rolling smiley
Re: Why do people want to have the choice of paying more for less?
September 22, 2019 02:49AM
When they do.

Pondy, you might want to write clearer, as in the title to this thread.... IF that isn't what you meant.
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